Urban Colleges for 2.8 GPA

The question:

Thank you for this much needed site. I would like your opinion for my daughter, Alex.

Stats - Math 590 Verbal 550 Writing 500. Attended college prep school in Southern California and is completing 12th grade at a New England boarding school due to Dad's job relocation. GPA-2.8

EC's-Alex has been active in student council (class President 9th & 10th grade, Ambassador 11th grade). Very strong high school basketball player/JV/V. 100+ hours of community service. Completed a 2 year leadership program at a non profit organization in the Pacific Northwest.

Wants a large urban college/university. Needs good night life and fun atmosphere. But knows the reason she is going to college!

Undecided major but interests include creative writing/jounalism/communications and psycology. Wants a strong study abroad program.

Looking at schools on the east coast/midwest. Schools include: Indiana U, Syracuse U, UConn, BU, UT/Austin, San Diego State and Sienna College/Loudonville, NY.

We would appreciate any help you can offer and are grateful to you for your time.
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My answer:

I don't mean to be discouraging, but Alex's combined GPA and test scores are low for Boston U, Syracuse, and San Diego State. I would consider all three schools reaches. That doesn't mean she shouldn't give them a shot, but admissions is iffy.

Let's start with San Diego State. Will she be applying as an in-state resident or an out-of-state applicant (parents must be current residents of California to apply as an in-state resident)? Applicants to any California State University school must meet a minimum Eligibility Index (EI) in order to be considered for admission. San Diego State is one of the most selective California State Universities, and its internal EI cut-off is usually higher than the Cal State's overall EI.

The EI is determined by a formula that weights grades in specific academic classes taken during 10th and 11th grade only plus combined math and reading SAT scores. ((See this link for details on how to compute the EI, including how to compute the California State University EI)If Alex will be applying as a non-resident, the minimum EI required for out-of-state applicants is 3502. For in-state residents, the minimum EI required is 2900. Again, keep in mind that the minimum is usually not sufficient for applicants to San Diego State.

Assuming that the GPA you gave for Alex is her overall GPA, not her GPA as computed by the Cal State system, her EI is 3380. Thus, if she's applying from out of state, her EI does not meet the state requirement, and if applying as a resident, it is on the low side for San Diego State.

As for Boston University, the average GPA of their accepted students last year was 3.5 and SAT scores in the 25-75 percentiles were: Verbal: 600-690, Math 610-700. If Alex's GPA was above 3.0, she'd be in better shape. If her grades show a definite upwards trend in junior and senior years, that may also help. But, her test scores are way below their mid-range.

Syracuse University's average GPA of accepted students was 3.6 and mid-range test scores were Verbal 550-650, M 570-670. The interesting thing about Syracuse is that admissions stats tend to vary among the schools within Syracuse. The Newhouse School of Communications is the most competitive and students rarely are admitted with GPAs below 3.0. However, the school of arts and sciences does occaisonally take B- students. Keep in mind that it can be difficult to transfer into Newhouse from Arts & Sciences.

Now, the good news: there are some excellent schools where I believe Alex would have a good shot, particularly if there is an upwards trend in her grades and she has taken a relatively challenging courseload in high school. Her extracurriculars sound very strong, and that will help at some schools, particularly private schools. Here are my recommendations of schools that Alex might want to look at --- all of these schools have great communications/journalism programs as well as good psychology programs. Many of them are also rolling admissions schools, which means if they appeal to Alex she should get her application in as quickly as possible as admissions tends to get more competitive as the year goes on.

Texas Christian University in Ft. Worth Texas is a fun school that looks very closely at the whole applicant. They love to see extracurriculars like Alex's. Don't let the word "Christian" worry you, it is not overly religious, although the student body is somewhat conservative.

Bowling Green University in Ohio. Bowling Green has an outstanding journalism program, plus many other good career focused majors. Average GPA is 3.2, so Alex is within in range. A little more competitive is Ohio State University, which, in my opinion, has the same sort of "big school" spirit as San Diego State and Indiana. Check on OSU's out of state admissions requirements, if any.

Temple University in Philadelphia offers an urban location plus a solid communications and psychology program. Rolling.

Loyola University in New Orleans may also be worth a look. Their campus was untouched by the Hurricane and, like many New Orleans schools, they may be more flexible next year in terms of admissions. Word I have is that by fall the fun parts of New Orleans - the French Quarter, Mardi Gras, etc. - will be up and swinging. Loyola is close to Tulane, which offers football and more big school activities.

The University of San Francisco. This school is on a hillside in San Francisco. Very international student body and all the excitement of San Francisco. Strong journalism and psychology programs. Pretty campus as well. Average GPA of accepted students is 3.2 but it is rolling and competition for admission gets harder as the year rolls on. Catholic.

The University of Portland. This is one of my personal favorites. The U of Portland has a beautiful campus within reach of downtown Portland which offers lots of diversions for college students. University of Portland is also a Division I sports school and students have lots of school spirit. Very friendly students and welcoming atmosphere. Rolling. Catholic.

Seatlle University. Seattle is a wonderful city and SU is right in the center of things. STrong internship program in their communications department. Rolling. Catholic.

The University of Tampa. Warm weather all year long, minutes from the beach. Strong communications program. Rolling.

University of North Dakota - not urban, but lots to do. Excellent journalism program.

Other Cal States: If she's able to apply as an in-state resident she meets the EI requirement. Other Cal States to consider for in-state application: Chico State, Fullerton, Long Beach.

Other possibilities for Alex's interests and stats: Loyola Marymount University (Calif), University of Denver, Lesley College in Boston, Southern Methodist University, University of South Carolina, Creighton U in Nebraska, Butler University in Indiana, Ithaca College, Susquehanna U. Some of the above are reaches, some mathces, some possible safeties.

Hope this helps a bit. I'd strongly recommend that Alex add several close match schools to her list (right now the only one I see is Siena) as well as one or two safe bets. She can then choose one or two reach schools to take a shot at. If you have further questions or comments you'd like to discuss privately, email me directly at CZLAW@aol.com. Best of luck to her!

Suggestions for International Relations

The question:

Stats:
Asian (Filipino) female
GPA: 3.1/4.0 unweighted, 4.18/5.0 weighted
I've had severe depression in 10th grade and I had to enter inpatient and outpatient therapy during the school year... I was also recovering during junior year.
Class rank: 213/501 top 42%
ACT: 30 (English 33, Math 24, Science 28, Reading 36) Writing: 12/12
Extracurriculars: Debate 9th-11th grades, Captain 11th grade; Amnesty International 12th grade, President/Founder; Interact (community service club) 9-12th grades
Community service: Local high school debate judge, hospice volunteer, charity volunteer--500+ hours
Academic awards: "A-B" honor roll 9th grade; "A" honor roll 1st/2nd grading periods 12th grade; subject awards for AP Psychology and AP European History 12th grade
Senior year classes: AP Psychology, AP Art History, AP U.S. Government, AP English Literature, AP European History, AP Human Geography
Senior year GPA so far: 4.0 unweighted, 5.75/6.0 weighted
AP Scores: English Language (5), U.S. History (5), World History (5)

I'd like to major in either International Relations, East Asian Studies/Chinese, or Gender Studies.

I need a college that has either temperate weather, i.e. California... It's where I grew up. I am not really into New England winters. I could go with colleges in cities (NYC) or somewhere close to it (Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore near Philly).

I need a college where it's okay to be an academic nut (spending many hours studying in the library) because other people will be studying right with you. I find it hard to really fit in in a 'normal' high school in TX, when before I went to a college prep high school where the main focus was studying, but there were still really quirky people that were not afraid to be themselves. I hope I'm not idealizing anything.

...I really like the idea of comfortable dorms and good food on campus, too.

I'm of a liberal attitude. I appear introverted and shy to people I don't really know. I love volunteering and community service. I love debate and creative writing and I want to pursue both of those in college.

I dislike the idea of core curriculums, especially with math and science requirements because I am definitely not proficient in either of those. If I could go to a college with an open curriculum, however, I would probably still take rudimentary math and science classes to even myself out. I LOVE the idea of an open curriculum, especially with all its interdisciplinary opportunities.

I would like to go to a college with high levels of political activism. Human rights is one of my growing passions.

I'm not preppy. If I could right now, I would shop at thrift stores regularly. I hate the idea of Greek life.

I want small classes, many opportunities for class discussion, and the propensity for close relationships with professors. I would love to be able to achieve research opportunities.

I really want to go to Columbia Law School to pursue International Law, so I hope the college I choose will help me in that endeavor.

Okay, sorry that this is already a lot, but here's my choice of colleges:

Scripps College
Pitzer College
Occidental College
University of Texas at Austin
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
New York University

It's a very top-heavy list...

If anything, I might go to a state school and try to transfer in to a "brand-name" university.
----

Yes, your list is a little top heavy. While your weighted GPA is fine, your unweighted GPA suggests that you probably have mostly B's on your transcript. That will make it difficult to compete with students who are mostly "A" students in the same AP/honors classes. Several of the schools on your list (Pitzer for example) focus on unweighted GPAs in admissions. Therefore, I would recommend adding at least one solid match school and at least one safe bet school. For the safety school, check out Mills College near San Francisco as a back up to Scripps. Mills meets most of your requirements and they do a great job of law school placement. Another safety school for you might be Goucher College in Baltimore. A plus with both schools is the ability to cross-register for classes at larger schools (UC Berkeley at Mills and Johns Hopkins at Goucher). Both have solid international relations programs. A plus with Goucher is they just made international study a requirement for all students and are backing the requirement up by paying travel expenses. Goucher also has an excellent internship program, and its proximity to D.C. would be a plus for someone interested in international relations. Another school in California worth a look would be the University of Redlands. Redlands attracts a very similar student body as Occidental (although it is not as racially diverse.) The program at Redlands I'd suggest you look at in particular is the Johnston Center. The Johnston Center is an academically intense program where you contract with teachers about your curriculum and course content, which gives you an amazing amount of flexibility (no core requirements either). The students in the Johnston Center are definitely on the more liberal and activist side as well.

For the match schools, Reed sounds like it would fit you to a T. Although it's in Portland, Oregon, the weather is not exactly "New England freezing" and is certainly more mild than what you'll find in New York. Reed is academically intense and its graduates are highly respected by graduate and professional schools. Other possible match schools to consider would include: George Washington University, the University of Pittsburgh, Earlham College in Indiana. Tulane could also possibly be a match worth looking at, as would the University of Miami.

Suggestions for International Relations

The question:

Stats:
Asian (Filipino) female
GPA: 3.1/4.0 unweighted, 4.18/5.0 weighted
I've had severe depression in 10th grade and I had to enter inpatient and outpatient therapy during the school year... I was also recovering during junior year.
Class rank: 213/501 top 42%
ACT: 30 (English 33, Math 24, Science 28, Reading 36) Writing: 12/12
Extracurriculars: Debate 9th-11th grades, Captain 11th grade; Amnesty International 12th grade, President/Founder; Interact (community service club) 9-12th grades
Community service: Local high school debate judge, hospice volunteer, charity volunteer--500+ hours
Academic awards: "A-B" honor roll 9th grade; "A" honor roll 1st/2nd grading periods 12th grade; subject awards for AP Psychology and AP European History 12th grade
Senior year classes: AP Psychology, AP Art History, AP U.S. Government, AP English Literature, AP European History, AP Human Geography
Senior year GPA so far: 4.0 unweighted, 5.75/6.0 weighted
AP Scores: English Language (5), U.S. History (5), World History (5)

I'd like to major in either International Relations, East Asian Studies/Chinese, or Gender Studies.

I need a college that has either temperate weather, i.e. California... It's where I grew up. I am not really into New England winters. I could go with colleges in cities (NYC) or somewhere close to it (Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore near Philly).

I need a college where it's okay to be an academic nut (spending many hours studying in the library) because other people will be studying right with you. I find it hard to really fit in in a 'normal' high school in TX, when before I went to a college prep high school where the main focus was studying, but there were still really quirky people that were not afraid to be themselves. I hope I'm not idealizing anything.

...I really like the idea of comfortable dorms and good food on campus, too.

I'm of a liberal attitude. I appear introverted and shy to people I don't really know. I love volunteering and community service. I love debate and creative writing and I want to pursue both of those in college.

I dislike the idea of core curriculums, especially with math and science requirements because I am definitely not proficient in either of those. If I could go to a college with an open curriculum, however, I would probably still take rudimentary math and science classes to even myself out. I LOVE the idea of an open curriculum, especially with all its interdisciplinary opportunities.

I would like to go to a college with high levels of political activism. Human rights is one of my growing passions.

I'm not preppy. If I could right now, I would shop at thrift stores regularly. I hate the idea of Greek life.

I want small classes, many opportunities for class discussion, and the propensity for close relationships with professors. I would love to be able to achieve research opportunities.

I really want to go to Columbia Law School to pursue International Law, so I hope the college I choose will help me in that endeavor.

Okay, sorry that this is already a lot, but here's my choice of colleges:

Scripps College
Pitzer College
Occidental College
University of Texas at Austin
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
New York University

It's a very top-heavy list...

If anything, I might go to a state school and try to transfer in to a "brand-name" university.
----

Yes, your list is a little top heavy. While your weighted GPA is fine, your unweighted GPA suggests that you probably have mostly B's on your transcript. That will make it difficult to compete with students who are mostly "A" students in the same AP/honors classes. Several of the schools on your list (Pitzer for example) focus on unweighted GPAs in admissions. Therefore, I would recommend adding at least one solid match school and at least one safe bet school. For the safety school, check out Mills College near San Francisco as a back up to Scripps. Mills meets most of your requirements and they do a great job of law school placement. Another safety school for you might be Goucher College in Baltimore. A plus with both schools is the ability to cross-register for classes at larger schools (UC Berkeley at Mills and Johns Hopkins at Goucher). Both have solid international relations programs. A plus with Goucher is they just made international study a requirement for all students and are backing the requirement up by paying travel expenses. Goucher also has an excellent internship program, and its proximity to D.C. would be a plus for someone interested in international relations.

For the match schools, Reed sounds like it would fit you to a Tee. Although it's in Portland, Oregon, the weather is not exactly "New England freezing" and is certainly more mild than what you'll find in New York. Reed is academically intense and its graduates are highly respected by graduate and professional schools. Other possible match schools to consider would include: George Washington University, James Madison University, Mary Washington University, and, if the weather wouldn't be an issue, Earlham College in Indiana.

Essay Advice

Still struggling with your essays? Avoid the "McEssay" syndrome, says Parke Muth, senior assistant dean and director of international admission at the University of Virginia. Muth says that too many essays he reads are what he terms "McEssays" that
are made up of generalizations and abstractions, rather than details that only you can write about. "The are technically correct in the way that they are aorganized and have the correct sentence structure and spelling, but they are boring," says Muth. "Sort of like a Big Mac. I have nothing against Big Macs, but the one I eat in Charlottesville is not going to be fundamentally different from the one I eat in Paris, Peoria or Palm Springs...The same can be said about the generic essay. If an essay starts out: 'I have been a member of the band and it has taught me leadership, perservance and hard work,' I can almost recite the rest of the essay without reading it...A MacEssay is not wrong, but it is not going to be a positive factor in the admission decision. It will not allow a student to stand out..."

Read more of Muth's advice at Writing the Essay: Sound Advice from an Expert

Balancing the Books

Although private colleges and universities are technically non-profit organizations, they still need to balance their books just like any business. Schools that bring in more revenues than they spend are likely to have more flexibility when it comes to things like hiring new faculty, improving campus facilities, and even offering financial aid. On the other hand, if a school is having cash flow problems - spending more than they bring in - there may be less flexibilty, and even, if the situation persists over time, the need for cutbacks in student services and faculty.

This week's Chronicle of Higher Education has a special report on the compensation levels of college presidents. What I found interesting, however, was that the report also provided details about the revenues and expenditures of each private university, based on IRS reporting for the year 2004. If you'd like a full explanation of what the IRS includes under revenues and expenditures, go to the IRS site and do a search for Form 990, the reporting form colleges and universities, as non-profit organizations, are required to use. (The Chronicle used the information from this form in developing their numbers)

While this may or may not be an indication of trouble, if I was interested in a school that took in less than it spent, I'd want to ask some pointed questions.

Was this a one-year issue? Or has the school been trouble balancing the books for several years in a row? Can the deficity be explained some major expense that cropped up that is not likely to be repeated (for example, it's a sure bet that Tulane's balance sheet will show a deficit this year) or was the deficit unexplained? Is the school having trouble attracting students, or attracting full-pay students? Has the school recently tightened its belt in terms of faculty hiring, student services, academic offerings? How strong is the school's endowment? (While you never want to dip into the endowment principle if possible, a strong endowment can provide a cushion if long term financial issues develop)

In short, if a school you're looking at is on the list below, you may want to investigate further. However, do keep the size of the deficit in mind. There is obviously a big difference between a school with a one year $1 million operating deficit and a school that has a $6 million deficit that has been growing over the past few years. Also, a $1 million deficit at a very small school with a small overall budget is likely to be very different than a $1 million deficit at a large university with a large overall budget. Don't rule out a school just because of a deficit, but rather, after you've asked some of the questions above, use it as another datapoint in your final decision.

Colleges and Universities with Revenue/Expenditure Shortfalls (Fiscal Year 2004)

Doctoral Universities:
Saint Louis University (MO)expenditures: $576 million: revenues: $562 million

Master's Colleges and Universities:
Florida Institute of Technology (FL) expenditures: $101 million: revenues:$100 million
Polytechnic U (NY) expenditures: $106 million: revenues: $87 million
Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ) expenditures: $114 million: revenues: $111 mil.
University of Bridgeport (CT) expenditures: $48 million: revenues: $47 million
Barry University (FL) expenditures: $111 million; revenues: $109 million
Centenary College of Louisiana expenditures:$22 milion;revenues: $18 million
Concordia U (NEB)expenditures: $26 million; revenues: $25 million
Concordia U (WIS) expenditures: $46 million; revenues: $44 million
Dominican University of California expenditures: $39 million; revenues: $37 million
Gannon U (PA) expenditures: $73 million; revenues: $66 million
Jacksonville U (FL) expenditures: $58 million; revenues: $56 million
John F. Kennedy U (CA) expenditures: $19 million; revenues: $17 million
La Roche College (PA) expenditures: $31 million; revenues: $29 million
Mount Saint Mary's (MD) expenditures: $55 million; revenues: $50 million
Regis College (MA) expenditures: $30 million; revenues: $25 million
Rochester Institute of Technology (NY) expenditures: $437 million; revenues: $432 million
Rockford College (IL) expenditures: $22 million; revenues $20 million
Saint Peter's College (NJ) expenditures: $58 million; revenues: $57 million
Silver Lake College (WISC) expenditures: $8 million; revenues: $7.8 million
Texas Wesleyan U (TX) expenditures: $40 million; Revenues: $38 million
University of Detroit Mercy (MI) expenditures: $100 million; revenues: $95 million
University of Rio Grande (OH) expenditures: $27 million; revenues: $25 million

Liberal Arts Colleges

Albertson College (ID) expenditures: $23 million; revenues $19 million
Bard College (NY) expenditures: $119 million; revenues: $116 million
Bridgewater College (VA) expenditures: $38 million; revenues: $37 million
Centre College (KY) expenditures: $43 million; revenues: $40 million
Chatham College (PA) expenditures: $30 million; revenues: $28 million
College of Wooster (Ohio) expenditures: $89 million; revenues: $87 million
Eckerd College (FL) expenditures: $64 million; revenues: $61 million
Fisk U (TN) expenditures: $26 million; revenues: $25 million
Gordon College (MA) expenditures: $53 million; revenues: $52 million
Goshen College (IND) expenditures: $26 million; revenues: $20 million
Guilford College (NC) expenditures: $36 million; revenues: $35 million
Hartwick College (NY) expenditures: $58 million; revenues: $57 million
Hendrix College (ARK) expenditures: $37 million; revenues: $36 million
Knox College (IL) expenditures: $43 million; revenues: $42 million
Lyon College (ARK) expenditures: $19 million; revenues: $14 million
Marlboro College (VT) expenditures $15 million; revenues: $14 million
Millsaps College (MISS) expenditures: $39 million; revenues: $38 million
Oglethorpe U (GA) expenditures: $27 million; revenues: $25 million
Ohio Wesleyan (OH) expenditures: $84 million; revenues: $83 million
Randolph-Macon Woman's College(VA) expenditures: $34 million; reveneues: $31 million
St. Andrew's PResbyterian College (NC) expenditures: $20 million; revenues: $16 million
St. Lawrence U (NY) expenditures: $114 million; revenues: $112 million
Siena College (NY) expenditures: $$83 million; revenues $82 million
Southwestern University (TX) expenditureS: $52 million; revenues: $51 million
Stephens College (MO) expenditures: $$18 million; revenues: $17 million
Sweet Briar College (VA) expenditures: $38 million; revenues: $31 million
Union College (NY) expenditures: $100 million; revenues: $96 million
University of Dallas (TX) expenditures: $51 million; revenues: 49 million
Virginia Wesleyan College (VA) expenditures: $32 million; revenues: 30 million
Washington and Jefferson College (PA) expenditures: $49 million; revenues: $47 million
Wittenberg U (OH) expenditures: $78 million; revenues: $76 million

Specialized Colleges:

Babson College (MASS) expenditures: $135 million; revenues $131 million
Cooper Union (NY) expenditures: $38 million; revenues: $34 million
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology (IND) expenditures: $73 million; revenues: $72 million

Match Schools for Bio/Chem/Political Science

The question:

PrintrDad would like your opinion for PrintrD (Sr, Public Suburban HS ~30 mi north of Seattle [i.e. outside the yuppie belt])

PrintrD Stats:
SAT I - CR 770, Math 720, Writing 760
SAT II - USHist 790, Chem 770, Math2C 710
AP - USHist 5, Chem 5, CalcAB 5
GPA - 4.0 uw (HS doesn't weight)
Class Rank - 1 of 413 (3 other 4.0's, but no real academic peers)
Taking AP Bio, AP Stats, UDub English Comp(college credit) and UDub 4th yr French (college credit) this year.
NMSC Semifinalist (2005-6)
WA Girls State (2005)
NHS Chapter - VP (11), Pres (12)
Band Section Leader, NW Honor Band (PLU) Invitee
Lots of HS department awards
EC's are decent, but not exceptional.

Interested in Bio, Chem (maybe together) and Political Science. Future interests in Med School or health science graduate studies.

Currently working on applications for:
UDub (Safety)
UDub Honors (Match, separate app)
Whitman (Match)
Claremont McKenna (Match)
Chicago (Match-Reach)
Stanford (Reach)
Yale (Reach)

PrintrDad is concerned that PrintrD could use a few more applications to match schools to balance out the reaches.

PrintrD has no particular preference rural/urban or geography outside of not interested in the South/Texas. No opinion on school size (PrintrDad has preference for LAC/Sm Univ with undergrad focus, but it's not really his choice is it :). Would prefer a diverse political culture, but will settle for less activist liberal.

Financial Aid will be necessary for anything more expensive than UDub, as PrintrD's twin [PrintrS] will be going to college as well.
--------------------

My answer:

You son has a very nice list of schools, but I agree, a few matches and additional financial safeties is a good idea. Since it isn't clear from your son's list whether he wants large or small, I will suggest both.

Here are my suggestions - please forgive me if you and your son have already looked at these schools and disqualified them:
Smaller schools:
Occidental (Calif.)
Reed
Lewis & Clark
Willamette U in Oregon (very strong science program and right across the street from the Oregon state capital for poli. sci. internships. Probably a safety with strong possibility of merit money)
Grinnell (Iowa)
Carleton (Minn)
Macalester (Minn.)

Larger Schools:
U of Oregon - would be safety both financially (your son would definitely get merit) and in terms of admissions
University of California Davis
University of Wisconsin
University of Michigan
Northwestern (may have too much preppy factor :) )
Emory (ditto)

Colleges for Chemistry/Math

The question:

Taking you up on your offer as well. Carolyn, you're going to be swamped, but at least it will keep you busy so you don't violate the cereal rules,

SAT (Estimated based on PSAT) -- 700 CR, 650 Math, 700 W
ACT (as Sophomore) -- 27, taking again in December, looking to improve to a 30.
GPA 3.5 (UW) -- school doesn't weight. AP US History as a Sophomore (3). Will be taking 2 AP tests this year (microeconomics and US Govt.)

Public suburban/rural HS. Not terribly involved at school -- school newspaper. VERY involved with volunteer firefighting -- has received extensive training and hopes to be a certified EMT before he graduates. Plays baseball, but not at the varsity level -- county league.

Interested in Chemistry and/or Math (maybe chem engineering, but not certain -- 3/2 programs perhaps).
Geographically, Kentucky is the Northern boundary, Georgia is the Southern, and the Misssissippi river is the Western (or to make it simpler, KY, TN, VA, SC, NC, GA, AL. MS). 5000 students or less in a non-urban environment. Preppy and/or Greek is okay so long as they don't dominate campus life. Definitely want to avoid suitcase schools. Football team preferred (doesn't have to be any good, just like to have one -- spectator purposes only). Political leanings? Probably not too important, but overwhelmingly conservative would be a concern.

He's a little shy and introverted and would probably do better on a campus that could "draw him out" a little, rather than the onus being on him to work at making the first step (if that makes sense)

If at all possible, should be near a volunteer fire department that he can join!

The working list of schools so far includes, in rough order of selectivity:

Bridgewater
Lenoir-Rhyne
Winthrop
Randolph-Macon
Emory and Henry
Presbyterian
Elon
Millsaps
Centre
Wofford
Rhodes
Furman
Wake Forest
William and Mary
Davidson

Merit aid would be nice, but is not crucial. Of the schools listed above, only ones that make me queasy financially are probably Davidson and Furman.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. BTW, don't suggest Sewanee -- he looked at it briefly and for some reason was completely turned off.

Thanks so much Carolyn.
--------------------

My answer:


I'm going to discuss the chemistry side of things first. For students interested in chemistry, I like to focus on schools that have chemistry programs that have been accredited by American Chemical Society. Schools with ACS accreditation have passed strict standards in their programs for meeting industry standards in chemitry education. Graduating from an ACS program can be a plus both in applying to graduate school and in seeking jobs, but more importantly, these programs are also more rigorous. Doesn't mean you should scrap the schools that aren't ACS accredited, but it is worth keeping in the back of your mind.

Of the schools currently on your son's list the following schools have ACS accreditation: Elon, Davidson, Centre, Furman, Wake Forest, Winthrop, William and Mary and Davidson. You can find a complete list of accredited programs in the ACS Committee on Professional Training database. Please double check that I didn't miss any of his schools.

A few schools that are ACS accredited which also fit might his preferences and geographic location: the University of North Carolina Ashville, The University of Richmond, Vanderbilt, Berry College, and Birmingham Southern. Just a little larger in size are the College of Charleston, Clemson, and the University of South Carolina.

If he'd be willing to broaden his geographic limitations just a bit, I'd also recommend he look at Earlham College in Indiana, which has an excellent chemistry program (and math as well) and is one of the highest per capita producers of future Chemistry Phd's in the country. It's just an hour north of Kentucky. :)
Other schools just over the edge of his geographic border that might be worth a look:
Hendrix in Arkansas (but no football there), Stetson and Eckerd in Florida, Tulane (on the large side) and the University of Delaware (also on the large side)

Delaware, USC, Vanderbilt, and Clemson would all give him the option of doing Chemical engineering if he decides to focus there. If you are looking at 3-2 programs, be sure to inquire which schools the engineering work will be completed at and check whether those schools are accredited specifically for chemical engineering by American Board of Engineering Training because not all 3-2 programs may be affiliated with a school offering the specific Chem. Engin. Degree.

In terms of math, the strongest schools on his list are probably: Davidson, Wofford, and Wake Forest. The math will be particularly important at the other schools if you're looking at 3-2 programs. Make sure to double check the requirements for the 3-2 programs and the availability of any advanced classes at the initial school.

Your son has strong grades and test scores. The lack of AP classes may or may not be a problem, depending on the availability of AP classes at his school. I think his main extracurricular is very interesting, and could make for a terrific essay. Make sure the teacher(s) and counselor writing his recommendations are aware of this EC, and how much time and dedication it requires. Off the top of my head, I can't tell you whether any of the schools above are near volunteer fire departments --- but I do know that Tulane has a student run EMT service.

I'd say your son's chances are excellent at Lenoir-Rhyne, Wofford, Millsaps, Winthrop, Emory and Henry, Presbyterian, and Randolph Macon. It seems like a few too many safety schools to me, but I assume you've gone heavy on safeties hoping for merit money. I'd say he also has strong chances at Rhodes, Furman, Elon and Centre. Consider these match schools. The rest are realistic reaches. Best of luck to your son!

Good News for International Applicants

Many U.S. colleges and universities are trying to boost the number of international students studying on their campuses, according to an article in The Philadelphia Inquirer. Applications from international students declined after 9/11 at many American schools, and now they're hoping to bring the numbers back to pre-9/11 days by aggressively recruiting abroad. The bad news? Financial aid is still extremely limited for international applicants, with only a handful of schools even offering it.

Liberal but not Hippie Schools

The question:

Thanks so much for suggesting colleges! You are awesome to do this! I am actually applying to college but there have been a few schools that i have cut from my list for hopefully the right reasons as well as a few schools on my list that i hope are right for me but i haven't had the chance to visit.
SAT: 730 CR, 700 W, 660 M
SAT II: 690 chem, 670 lit, 650 german
GPA: 3.9 uw, 4.5 weighted
I'm a full IB student with tons of extra curriculars, with music being my main passion. I take lessons on flute and piano, do tons of ensembles, and all that. I'm an editor of the school newspaper and i'm involved in other clubs. I hope to do something with history and english in college, minoring or atleast participating in music. However, i really want to explore so I think an open or less structured curriculum would be good for me.
Chicago to Virginia to Massachusetts (the northeast basically) are my limits for furthest west, south, and north. Preferably urban (with a more enclosed campus) or suburban -a place with a cool town and events going on. I want a school with good financial aid.
I guess my main problem is figuring out the school's culture and i'm worried about how much i'll actually fit into these schools. I would like a bunch of students who are academically motivated, more prone to hanging out than partying, a campus where you'll find less drugs/drinking, a diverse student body, a liberal atmosphere, a sense of community and respect, a laid back but still dynamic atmosphere, and also above 1600 students. However, while i'm pretty liberal and artsy in my beliefs, i am not really that hippie-ish or hipster-ish. Also, i don't want a campus where wealth is flaunted. I want to become really involved with activities, so i want less of a competitive environment and also, even though i really want to learn I want to have time to do other stuff. So here is my list:
1. Allegheny
2. Brown - my 1st choice
3. Case Western
4. Northwestern
5. Oberlin
6. College of Wooster
7. University of Rochester
8. Wesleyan

I cut off Vassar, Brandeis, Yale, and Boston University, and there is still time to add them if you think they will fit me well. On my list there are definitely some schools i'm more fond of than others, but i basically just want to see your view on if you think i'll find the sort of campus culture i want. Thanks again for your response!
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First, you have wonderful credentials and should do well in admissions. I'm just curious: did you consider the University of Chicago at all? Although some call it "the place where fun goes to die," I've talked with current students who say the reputation is not deserved. It certainly would fit with what you are looking for. If you haven't already, I'd also suggest you take a close look at Kenyon. The English and history programs there are terrific, although it certainly is not in an urban or even suburban area.

I like your list of schools very much. They are all excellent schools, and each has something special to recommend it. I would say that the College of Wooster and Alleghey are going to be safety schools for you, with the good possibility of a merit scholarship offer. Case Western, Oberlin, and the University of Rochester are probably solid match schools for you. Case Western and Rochester are both very interested in applicants interested in the humanities and social sciences so they are probably safe matches for you. They can also both be generous with merit money.
Oberlin has a wonderful English program and is also very strong in history, so it is a great choice.

I'm putting Wesleyan, Northwestern and Brown in the reach category, but I think you have an excellent shot at all three schools, assuming your recommendations and essay(s) are well done.

Of the schools on your list, I think Brown sounds the most like what you are looking for both socially and academically. Although some disagree with Brown's open curriculum approach, they actually have a very strong advising program that helps students to end up with a cohesive education. I also think it fits your description of yourself as a liberal and creative type but not hippie or hipster type.

Socially, I would group Northwestern, Allegheny and the College of Wooster together.
These schools tend to attract a more middle-of-the-road student body. All three also have sororities and fraternities on campus and you'll find a bit more drinking at these schools than the others. Still, they are not really wild party schools so you should be fine.

I'd group Wesleyan and Oberlin together socially. You will find a very liberal student body at both schools and probably more pot than beer bashes. These are probably the most "hippie-ish" of the schools on your list, with quite a few politically involved students on campus. I'd compare both to Vassar in terms of the campus culture.

The University of Rochester and Case Western tend to attract very hard working students, and also very career oriented students. You'll find parties on both campuses, but also lots of people who take studying seriously. Politics aren't a major factor at either school. By the way, they both have great English and history departments even though most people think of these two schools and think "pre-med" or "science." I'd compare Brandeis to these schools.

A few other suggestions of schools to look at (forgive me if you've already considered these) include: Tufts University, Johns Hopkins and Clark University.
Tufts comes very close to fitting your description, although I'm not exactly sure about the wealth not being flaunted part (smile). Johns Hopkins is another one of those schools that people think is all about science, but they actually have a superb history program and an excellent English and creative writing curriculum as well. Add in their connection with the Peabody conservatory, and JHU might be a fit, although check their requirements carefully to see if they will be flexible enough for you. I mention Clark because it is a great small school in an urban environment not too far from Boston. It has very solid history and English departments, and an extremely diverse student body. One of the nice things about Clark is that it also has a very strong emphasis on undergraduate research. If you go to their website, be sure to check out some of the recent research and independent projects students have done. Clark would be a definite safe bet for you in the northeast with a very good chance of merit money. Its student body fits your description of yourself to a tee.

Hope this helps --- please come back and let me know how it goes!

Computer Engineering Colleges Question

Received the following question:

Stats: SAT I - Math 740, Verbal 580, Writing 610 - SAT II - Math 2 640. Attend one of the NYC selective science High Schools, weighted average is 96, class is not ranked. Four year HS honor roll, NHS both junior and senior years, three year foreign language program, member of the symphonic band, all senior classes are honors or AP. Decent EC's - volunteer work, several part-time jobs.

Intended college major is Computer Engineering.

Looking at schools only within two hours of NYC. Open as to campus size having visited both large and small schools and have liked both. Quality of the dorms is of importance.

A bit on the preppy side socially, not a drinker but not at all a loner and enjoy socializing. Only sports interest in intramural bowling.

Hoping for some merit aid but not a prerequisite.

Currently working on applications for the folowing schools:
1. The College of New Jersey
2. Columbia
3. Drexel
4. Lafayette College
5. Lehigh University
6. Rowan
7. Rutgers New Brunswick
8. Stevens Institute of Technology
9. Widener

Hoping that TCNJ, Lafayette, Lehigh, Rutgers and Stevens are "matches" or "near matches/slight reaches". Thinking that Drexel, Rowan and Widener are "Safeties". Realize that Columbia is definitely a "reach".
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My answer: First, you may already know this but not all of the schools on your list are accredited by the American Board of Engineering Training (ABET) for computer engineering. Whenever possible, if someone has an interest in a specific engineering field, I prefer to steer them towards schools that do have ABET accreditation in that specific area, simply because schools that have met ABET accreditation have "jumped through the hoops" to meet industry standards for a particular area.

The College of New Jersey has only computer science, not computer engineering. The computer science program is ABET accredited for computer science, but not for engineering. There are some differences between a degree specifically in CS and one in C Engineering, so if you haven't already, compare TCNJ's program with some of the accredited C Engineering ones to make sure it will get you where you want to go. In general C Engineering degrees are the more specialized and "hot commodity" degrees when it comes to job hunting.

Columbia and Widener are ABET accredited for Electrical Engineering, not computer engineering. That can definitely work, but won't give you the specific "Computer Engineering" accredited program. Of course, Columbia's engineering program in general is top notch, an a degree in EE from Columbia will definitely open doors. Less so with Widener.

The lack of ABET accreditation in computer engineering at these schools doesn't mean you shouldn't apply, but it is something to go in knowing.

You can read more about ABET accreditation and check out the ABET accreditations of all schools at ABET's searchable website

That said, I think you are pretty on target with your thinking in calling Lafayette, Rutgers and Stevens matches. I would consider TCNJ more of a safe bet school for you. And, yes, Columbia is definitely a reach --- but not out of reach.

Not sure if you want some other options at this point but I'd recommend the following schools, all of which have ABET accreditation for computer engineering:

U of Rochester
Rochester Institute of Technology*
Syracuse*
Rennselear Polytech*
SUNY Binghamton
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY New Paltz
University of Connecticut

The schools that are starred are ones where I think you'd have decent chances of some merit money.

Although some of these schools are not within two hours driving distance, they are within an hours flying time so might be worth considering. Personally, I'd take the short flight to Rochester or Syracuse for stronger programs over staying close to home and going to Widener or Rowan. But that's just my personal preference. Sometimes you have to be flexible a bit on distance in order to get a better quality program. As an engineering major, it's likely you won't have much free time on the weekends to run home anyhow.

Best of luck in admissions --- you look like a solid candidate!

Need College Advice? Just Ask

If you're stumped about which colleges and universities might be a fit for you or your child, feel free to ask the College Hunter (a.k.a. Carolyn Lawrence) for college advice. Post a message here letting me know: your basic stats (test scores and GPA) and your main interests and desires and I'll do a feature post giving you suggestions. Be as specific as possible about your preferences and needs: Large,small, medium sized? Urban, rural, suburban? Geographic preferences? Social culture (liberal, conservative, preppy, artsy, diverse, religious, etc.) Do you need substantial financial aid or are you hoping for merit money? Etc.

Give me a day or two to respond, and then look for the answers to be posted here on College Hunter.

Project Pericles Colleges

Since 1999, Project Pericles has sought to foster civic and political engagement on college and university campuses. Participating colleges make a commitment to finding ways to bring social and civic involvement into the classroom and to bring their students out into the world to work on related projects. The colleges and universities must be invited to participate, and they are chosen based on their willingness to involve all of the institution's members in service learning. At present, there are 20 colleges and universities participating, ranging from Hendrix College in Arkansas to Macalester in Minnesota. If you're looking for a school where social and political concerns aren't just discussed in theory, but faced in reality, consider one of the Pericles Project schools.

What I've learned so far

My daughter's final college applications will (please Lord!) be going out tommorrow. While we won't know the final results for several months, here's what I've learned so far:

1. You can visit 20 plus colleges (like we did), read all of the guidebooks (like we did), and have the perfect strategy for how your child should present themselves to college admissions officers (like I did), but sometimes, in the end, it all comes down to just getting the applications done. If that means your child wants to do them his or her way, not your way, so be it. In short, sometimes the best laid plans for strategizing or making things perfect go wildly and unexpectedly off course.

2. That's fine. This too shall pass. As long as you have at least one solid school that you're highly likely to get into, things will work out. Say that again until you believe it: things will work out. I'll let you know when I start believing it myself.

3. All kids procrastinate. Any parent who tells you differently is either a liar or suffering from advanced senility.

4. Resist the urge to recite your child's college list to everyone you encounter. Telling the mailman, the neighbors, your in-laws and your best friend from college the complete list won't boost your child's chances in the slightest. It will, however, tend to make you more nervous about facing the embarrassment of having to tell everyone that Johnny didn't get into all 15 schools on his list or that Sally didn't win the prestigious merit scholarship at Podunk U you've told everyone she's applying for.

If you're asked where Sally or Johnny is applying, just say "Oh, she/he has five or six schools that she/he is interested in. We'll see how it goes." And leave it at that. Trust me, you - and your child - will sleep more soundly once you stop repeating the golden list over and over again.


5. Let it go. Which fat envelopes do or don't arrive next spring ultimately have very little to do with your success as a parent or your child's success as a person. Don't loose sight of all of the wonderful and special things that make your child special yet have absolutely nothing to do with their chances of being admitted to college. Don't loose sight of all of the wonderful and special things that make you special as a parent that have absolutely nothing to do with your child's chances of being admitted to college.

No one knows better than I, the Queen of the College Possessed, how difficult this is to do, but, honestly, this isn't a test of anything that you or your child need to pass. It's just another step on the road to letting them go, and once you stop trying to control the process, things get much easier.

My daughter's last applications go out tommorrow. This is the beginning, not the end. We will both make it to the other side, and everything will work out as it is meant to be.

Report Questions College Education Effectiveness

A report issued on Friday by The Association of American Colleges and Universities (AAC&U) calls for colleges and universities to measure how effective they are at educating students in the skills needed to succeed in the workforce.

The report, Liberal Education Outcomes: A Preliminary Report on Student Achievement in College, documents the emerging consensus among educators, the business community, and the accreditation community about a set of key learning outcomes that are essential for all college students in the 21st century. But it also shows that little national data is available on how well students are achieving these key outcomes. The report contrasts data from student surveys with what little evidence exists from nationally administered tests. Authors of the report suggest that the sophisticated outcomes expected from a college education and that will be essential to students’ success in the new global economy and in their roles as citizens of a participatory democracy are, in fact, particularly difficult to assess with standardized tests. They note further, however, that there is a wide chasm between students’ own perceptions of their gains in learning and the results of the few national studies that measure math, critical thinking, and writing skills. For instance:

-While 77 percent of students report significant improvements in their writing skills in college, standardized tests show that only 11 percent of seniors scored at a “proficient” level in writing.

-Standardized test results indicate that only 6 percent of seniors graduate at the “proficient” level in critical thinking skills, while 87 percent of students believe that college contributed a great deal to improving their skills in this area.

-There is no national data on many other important outcomes of college. For instance, there in no national data on students’ knowledge of history or science, their ethical reasoning skills; their intercultural and global knowledge and skills, their information literacy, or their ability to work in teams and apply knowledge from one area to another.

Previously released public opinion research indicates that today’s high school and college students are unaware of this emerging consensus or how important achievement of key liberal education outcomes will be to their futures and the future of our diverse democracy. It also shows that one of the most commonly espoused goals for higher education—preparing students for engaged citizenship—was the least important goal for college-bound students and college juniors and seniors in four different regions of the country.

“This report should be a wake-up call to the academic community and to our nation’s leaders,” said AAC&U President Carol Geary Schneider. “There is a huge disconnect between the learning we value as a community and that will be essential to our nation’s economic success and our ability to provide basic evidence about how well students are doing on key outcomes. When combined with the results of our research with today’s students, this report reveals how much we need to do to live up to our own educational ideals.”

Related Link: Measuring the pulse of liberal education

Student Engagement Study Released

The National Survey of Student Engagement (NSSE)2005 report was released today. The annual survey of college freshman and seniors is measures how engaged students feel in their academic experiences. Over 972 four-year colleges and universities participated. The report asks students about factors such as the number of hours spent preparing for class, how often they write papers and participate in class discussions, and how supportive they find faculty, administrators, and the overall environment of their institution.

As in past years, students at liberal arts colleges were significantly more likely to report they spend more time preparing for class, write more papers, and participate in class discussions than students at doctoral research universities. Liberal arts college students also were more likely to work with a faculty member on research projects, study abroad, do an internship, and interact with students from other cultures.


Related Links:

The National Survey of Student Engagement (NSSE)2005 report

Praying for Success

New NSSE Findings Point to "Swirl Pattern" Among Undergraduate Students

Many Collegians Switch Schools, Survey Finds

Online Application Debate

Submitting your application online is fast, easy, and efficient. However, at this week's College Board's annual meeting for college admissions personnel, a heated debate broke out whether the use of technology such as online application filing is really a good thing. Theodore O'Neil, dean of admissions at the University of Chicago, gave an impassioned speech suggesting that making the application process easier is not necessarily a good thing for either applicants or colleges. He lambasted online applications, claiming they result in "generic" and "utterly boring" essays and applications. Meanwhile, Jessica Marianaccio, director of admissions at Columbia University, had a different take. She defended online applications saying they have made it easier to discuss individual applications during admissions committee meetings. What to know more? Read Efficiency or Mediocrity?.

Tips for getting best college financial aid package

If your child is a senior, start now to get the best possible financial aid package. That's the advice of financial writer Jean Chatzky in a special MSNBC report The early bird gets the worm, says Chatzky, suggesting that parents should be gathering their financial data and information about the financial aid process at each college now, not later. She also points out that while it's fine to have a long list of schools, students and parents should make certain that there are at least some colleges on your list "that will want you so much they'll likely give you more aid." She also points out that colleges tend to have a group of similar colleges they compete with for students, and are often more willing to negotiate financial aid packages when an accepted student is deciding between two schools in the competitive group. If you do negotiate, use the soft sell approach Chatzky advises.

New System May Smooth Financial Aid in Divorce Situations

The College Board's Financial Aid Standards and Services and Advisory Committee has developed a new system that they hope will smooth the process of applying for financial aid for children of divorced parents. Seventy five colleges and universities are already using the system, according to an article in Inside Higher Ed News You Can't Divorce Tuition Bills.

The goal of the new system is to encourage better reporting of financial information from both parents in a divorce situation. When a student indicates that he or she has divorced or separated parents on a financial aid application, the system automatically generates an email to the student indicating that both parents will need to provide financial information in order for the student to be eligible for financial aid. The student is instructed to forward the email to both parents, who can then sign on privately to provide the required information without the other knowing about it. The system also collects data about spousal income for parents who have remarried, although that income is not counted in the estimated finanical family contribution (EFC). The student then receives a lump sum EFC based on all gathered information.

Among the 75 schools already working with the system: Amherst, Harvey Mudd College, Bates, Georgetown, Harvard, the University of Michigan and the University of Chicago.